How To Stand Out As An HR Consultant and Boost Business Growth Using Neuroscience Insights – with Dr. Eugene K. Choi

In a recent episode of the HR business marketing podcast, A Better HR Business, Ben and his guest, Dr. Eugene K. Choi, talk about strategies to help executive leaders achieve and sustain peak performance in high-stress, high-stakes and high-change environments.

Dr. Eugene K. Choi, Pharm. D, is a Transformational Mindset Coach and board-certified clinical pharmacist on a mission to help talented, heart-driven leaders operate at their highest levels of performance, intelligence, and communication. He firmly believes that activating the powerful executive brain maximizes results—not just for business leaders, but for humanity as a whole.

With a background in clinical pharmacy, neuroscience, and business coaching, Dr. Choi’s unique science-backed process, combined with groundbreaking technology, helps entrepreneurs dramatically improve performance, innovate dynamic solutions, and achieve their goals. His expertise in audience growth has generated over 8 million views on his online articles and more than 23 million views on his short films, while he has worked with hundreds of entrepreneurs to optimize mindset and strategy, producing tangible results in both business and life.

You’ll hear practical strategies for how to attract consulting clients, business growth strategies for consultants, and common consulting mistakes to avoid. Whether you identify as HR, workplace, L&D, OD, recruitment, or people & culture, you’ll discover real stories and actionable advice to differentiate yourself, win contracts, and grow with purpose.

Whether you’re navigating leadership transitions, looking for practical business development tips, or curious about how technology is reshaping HR, this episode is packed with actionable insights and candid advice.

What You’ll Learn in This Episode:

• How understanding survival and executive brain states transforms client acquisition and consulting results
• Actionable neuroscience concepts HR consultants and workplace consultants can apply for better performance
• Dr. Eugene K. Choi’s unique journey from pharmacy supervisor to viral filmmaker to transformational coach—and what consultants can learn about marketing and mindset from his story

Resources & Links Mentioned:

• Neurohackingschool.com: www.neurohackingschool.com
• Eugene’s LinkedIn: www.linkedin.com/in/eugenekchoi

Scroll down for the audio version and the transcript.

Ok, onto the show!

Audio Version – How To Stand Out As An HR Consultant and Boost Business Growth Using Neuroscience Insights – with Dr. Eugene K. Choi

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About The ‘A Better HR Business’ Podcast

In my HR marketing podcast, I talk with different HR consultants and HR tech companies from around the world to learn about what they do and how they keep their businesses healthy and moving in the right direction.

If you have questions you want to ask me about growing an HR consultancy or marketing for HR tech companies, just let me know or visit the HR marketing services page.

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Enjoy the show!

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Episode Transcript

Episode 297: How To Stand Out As An HR Consultant and Boost Business Growth Using Neuroscience Insights – with Dr. Eugene K. Choi

Ben [00:27]:
Hello. Welcome back to the show. Great to have you along. I’m really looking forward to today’s conversation with Dr. Eugene K. Choi. Eugene is a transformational leadership coach who teaches executive leaders and business owners how to achieve and sustain peak performance in high stress, high stakes, and high change environments. With a background in clinical pharmacy, neuroscience, and business coaching, Eugene has helped thousands of entrepreneurs and executives optimize their mindset, reduce toxic stress, and lead with more impact. Hugely important areas. I’m very keen to dive into it, but firstly, Eugene, thanks very much for joining me today.

Dr. Eugene K. Choi [01:06]:
Thank you so much for having me. It’s an honor.

Ben [01:09]:
Good stuff. And you are in sunny LA County, is that right?

Dr. Eugene K. Choi [01:13]:
Yeah, I used to work in LA County, but I moved to Orange County now. So I’m in sunny Orange County in California now.

Ben [01:18]:
Nice. So we’re going to dive into what you do, but speaking of LA County, I believe the work you’re doing has been driven by your experience in the LA County health system. Can you tell us a bit about that and what led to the creation of what you do now?

Dr. Eugene K. Choi [01:33]:
I’ve made quite a few transitions. One of the things that happened was I left New York, where I was practicing as a pharmacist. I did a little bit of filmmaking full-time for a bit — that was a whole other endeavor, and I got some cool experience out of that, including marketing experience.

But then I ended up back in pharmacy for a little while because I was living the starving artist lifestyle. We ran out of money, and I managed to get promoted. So here I am — I think less than two years after starting as a staff pharmacist in LA County — they promoted me to a supervisor. Now I’m managing six major hospitals and over 200 clinics in Los Angeles County.

I quickly realized, oh my gosh, leadership is tough. It’s really tough. Honestly, the unnecessary drama, politics, and bureaucracy — it almost reminded me of high school a little bit. You see all that stuff happening behind the scenes, which I can imagine HR deals with a lot too, right? Because I’ve had to deal with HR for various things.

That got me started down this path of asking, what does it really take — not just to perform at your best, but to help a team perform at their best? That question led me down a rabbit hole. My healthcare background really helped, because it’s what led me to discover neuroscience — the actual science and data behind how the brain works and how to help it work better.

One of the things my filmmaking background helped with is this: neuroscience is such a complex topic. If you go up to someone at the dinner table and say, “Hey, want to talk neuroscience?” — not everyone’s going to jump in. What the filmmaking experience taught me was how to take a complex subject and make it not only simple to understand and entertaining to hear, but also easy to implement.

So that’s what I started doing. I started sharing information in a way that made a complex topic enjoyable to learn about and easy to apply in our own lives — so we could experience the benefits ourselves. And that became a hit.

So that’s, in essence, why I left behind that pharmacy life. Even though it was a steady, great income — a six-figure salary and all that — I left it behind to continue teaching others, because it’s been working.

Ben [03:34]:
And you’re being modest, but on the film side of things, you’ve had a few views along the way, right?

Dr. Eugene K. Choi [03:39]:
Yeah. So the reason I say that taught me about marketing experience was because we created multiple short films with the group I was working with, called Jubilee Media. They’ve gotten pretty big now — I think they just crossed an audience of 10 million subscribers at this point. I was with them when they were just starting off.

We were creating multiple pieces — short videos on YouTube — and they were generating millions and millions of views. The biggest one I worked on crossed the 23 million view mark.

That’s when you realize, when it comes to marketing — whoa — there is a method to the madness. How do you create a piece of information, a piece of content, and express it in a way that makes people want to share what you shared? That’s, in essence, what going viral is: does the thing you’re sharing make other people want to share it too? Then it catches like wildfire, and a bunch of people share it — that’s what gets all the views.

Yeah, it definitely helped me with my own marketing and with my business, because one of my articles went viral as well. And that’s what enabled me to go full-time in my business.

Ben [04:38]:
To summarize some of that in my own mind: creating content, particularly for YouTube or video formats, isn’t just about creating preachy, informative, or helpful stuff. It’s about making it shareable — something people will share to elevate their status, make friends, make people laugh, or help others learn, rather than just learning something themselves.

That’s a powerful message for anyone trying to do any kind of marketing at all.

Dr. Eugene K. Choi [04:59]:
Yeah, I mean, if you really think about it, information’s gotten so much cheaper now. The moment AI came out, information became cheaper than ever before.

I remember when the Internet first came out — I had to do a book report with a stack of textbooks, spending hours trying to find that one sentence. But then, once search engines appeared — boom — just like that, you had access to information so much faster. It became cheaper. You didn’t have to spend as much human power, mental power, energy, or time to find that one piece of information.

Now AI can even think for you. So where does the demand go when the supply of information has skyrocketed? It shifts to emotional demand.

In marketing, we have to learn how to tap into connecting with the individual or the audience. That’s what we’ve learned and practiced more — and I think it’s going to be even more in demand now because information is cheaper than ever.

Why do people get addicted to scrolling on social media? It’s because they want to feel something.

So, in essence, when it comes to marketing, we need to develop that skill — because most marketers just throw information at you and hope it works. If that makes sense.

Ben [06:01]:
Yeah, I remember years ago reading a book — I think it was First, Break All the Rules. It’s all about the StrengthsFinder by the Gallup organization and so on. I remember reading, maybe it was in the opening chapter, that in the ’90s — the Clinton era — there was a lot of research and a lot of money being spent.

I think the book called it “the Decade of the Brain.” They were saying there was a lot of energy in that area back then, but since then, that’s more than tripled — a multiple-fold increase in research and discoveries. So I’m imagining we know so much more now about neuroscience and how the brain works.

So before we get into that — what are the challenges and problems that you help business owners and executive leaders solve when it comes to that world of neuroscience?

Dr. Eugene K. Choi [06:43]:
Yeah. So, you know, a lot of people I work with have reached a certain amount of success, right? They consider themselves high performers. They’re good at what they do.

But they can sense and feel this thing — this feeling of, there’s another level here that I’m missing out on. Like, what is that extra hidden gear I’m not tapping into that could produce more exponential results, create more leverage, and open more opportunities?

So that’s what I basically help them tap into. Once you learn some of the science, you actually discover this extra level of performance you never knew you had. It’s either that, or you were aware it was there — you just didn’t know how to tap into it.

I show the basic science behind how to do that. You know, life on the daily for most people is an environment of stress. There’s a lot of change happening, high stakes involved, and constant pressure.

So the question becomes: how do you continue to perform even better despite the outer circumstances and challenges you’re dealing with?

Ben [07:38]:
Isn’t it just obvious to people that I’m doing X, but I should be doing X + 1, or X + 10, or whatever it may be? Shouldn’t we just know that — and therefore, just do it?

Dr. Eugene K. Choi [07:48]:
That’s the big problem, isn’t it? I think the universal thing a lot of us can relate to is this: I know what I should do, but I don’t feel like it.
I know I should eat better to be healthier — but I don’t feel like it, so I don’t do it.
I know I should go work out at the gym to get more physically fit — but I don’t feel like it, so I don’t do it.

That’s the universal thing. Like we were mentioning earlier, it’s not that people don’t know what they should do. And that’s what I found the majority of the time, especially as a business coach.

After coaching hundreds and hundreds of businesses over the years, I realized — the majority of you already know what to do. The real question is: why aren’t you doing it?

That’s what led me down the rabbit hole of the science behind all this. And that’s when it started to make sense to me — oh, this is why people don’t do it. It’s not because they’re stupid; it’s because their brain is operating in a certain way.

If they learn how to work with their brain, they can change those habits.

Ben [08:33]:
So can you explain a bit about that — both on the negative and on the positive? What does the neuroscience say?

Yes, the negative aspects, such as — I don’t know — self-sabotage, holding ourselves back, not doing enough, whatever it may be. And then, on the other side, how do we really accelerate the good things or accentuate them?

Dr. Eugene K. Choi [08:50]:
Okay, so we have to go down a little bit of a rabbit hole, if that’s okay.

Ben [08:53]:
Oh, here we go.

Dr. Eugene K. Choi [08:54]:
So here’s the first thing we need to understand: your brain and nervous system operate in only one of two states at any given time. I call them either a survival state or an executive state. Your whole nervous system is in one or the other. It’s actually that simple.

The survival state is when your brain feels threatened in any way. And I’m talking physically threatened. If you feel physically threatened, your brain has to go into a reactive mode. In that mode, you cannot think — you are reacting. Because if you’re in a life-threatening situation and you sit there and start thinking, it’s already too late — you might die.

The key thing to understand about the survival state is that thinking stops.

On the other hand, the executive state is where your brain’s higher functions come from. We’re talking about your ability to:

• Solve problems
• Think critically
• Have empathy
• Connect with someone

Your creativity comes from your executive state. So does your ability to make good decisions — what’s known as executive function. The list of capabilities that come from this state is long.

Here’s the big problem, based on research: for the majority of our adult lives, we’re not in the executive state. Research shows that, based on self-reports, most adults spend a majority of their lives in a survival state. One number I’ve come across is that for 70% of our adult lives, we’re operating in survival mode.

So that means for 70% of our adult lives, our critical thinking skills are off, our creativity is off, and our ability to connect with other people is turned off.

Which is why a lot of marketing doesn’t work, if you know what I mean. Because if we’re doing marketing in a state of survival, people can tell. You’ve probably had those sleazy sales conversations — where it feels like, you don’t care about me, you’re just here to try to make some money. And then, of course, I don’t want to give it to you.

All of these higher functions are shut off for a majority of our adult life. Remember: it’s only one or the other. You’re either in survival mode or executive mode — you cannot be in both at the same time.

So then the question becomes: why are we in a state of survival for the majority of adult life if we’re not physically threatened? That’s where the research gets interesting.

It turns out we’re not in survival mode because we’re running away from saber-toothed tigers every day like we used to. We’re in survival mode because we’re surviving feelings that don’t feel comfortable.

Ask yourself: how often am I feeling stressed, anxious, depressed, annoyed, frustrated? These uncomfortable feelings can trigger survival mode. Research shows that emotional pain can be just as intense as physical pain — the brain processes it in a similar way.

In other words, your brain gets fooled into thinking, “Whoa, these uncomfortable feelings are life-threatening!” — and it flips the switch into survival mode. The problem is, if your life isn’t actually in danger, the things you need in that moment — your critical thinking, creativity, decision-making — aren’t being accessed.

So if you ever ask yourself, “Why am I getting in my own way? Why do I self-sabotage?” — guaranteed, some form of survival state activity is happening in your nervous system.

That’s the first thing to understand.

Now, going down the rabbit hole: how do we overcome these experiences? How do we overcome these mindset patterns?

I’m curious for you: based on what you’ve heard, the feedback you’ve gotten, or the people you’ve worked with, what do you find most of your audience struggles with? What are the biggest things that get in their way?

Ben [12:19]:
Just the three big audiences:

1. Internal leaders inside corporations or larger organizations. This group deals with the dynamic of trying to affect change as a solo person — one individual making a difference, influencing others, and aligning the business.
2. Leaders inside consulting firms and tech firms in the HR space, typically mid-to-large organizations. They face the challenge of having so many options and figuring out how to find the right ones, as well as how to allocate resources and energy in the most effective way.
3. Solo operators. For this group, there’s a lot more focus on the mental game. I would estimate about 30% of people in this category struggle with things like self-sabotage or limiting beliefs — which aligns with what you were describing: holding themselves back or dealing with underlying pressures.

You can see this brought to life in behaviors like giving things away for free or selling for very little. They might say, “Can I pick your brain?” and you reply, “Sure, here’s my time.” They don’t value it very much, aren’t selling it enough, and lack confidence in their sales approach.

So those are some examples across these three audiences.

Dr. Eugene K. Choi [13:21]:
Okay, that’s great. So we can show how Survival State shows up in all three of those audiences. This is actually the most important first step. I shout this from the rooftops whenever I can, whenever people have questions about it.

The first thing I recommend to every client I work with is: awareness is the most important piece. We need to pay attention. Many of us aren’t even aware of what Survival State actually looks like in our daily lives.

We think it’s just normal for us. We think, this is life — we’re just supposed to be stressed out all the time and anxious all the time. But we need to look at what Survival State actually looks like.

In a life-threatening situation, it’s easy to recognize the fight, flight, freeze response. Here’s the thing: when your brain is in survival mode, those are the only three things it knows how to do — fight, flight, or freeze. That’s it.

And you do it without thinking. Your brain is actually trying to keep you alive because it thinks you’re about to be killed.

• Fight: You might pick up a weapon to fight.
• Flight: You might run for your life.
• Freeze: You play dead. Possums are notorious for doing this because predators prefer live prey, so they just play dead.

Humans are similar, but here’s the twist: we’re surviving emotions that don’t feel good on a daily basis. People don’t realize that we still enact the fight, flight, freeze response, but we don’t connect the dots on what it actually looks like.

This was the big aha for me — and it’s what I’ve been teaching — because this is the most important first step on the journey of helping you perform at a higher level.

So what does each response look like in daily life?

• Fight response: Imagine someone says something hurtful. Your brain feels threatened, so you get defensive and engage in an argument — you’re getting into a fight. The sad part is that, in the moment, your brain is actually viewing that person as a threat. Your brain is trying to attack them — most of the time verbally, but sometimes physically.
• Flight response: This looks like procrastination. Usually, there’s a fear or insecurity behind it. What if I do this and fail? What if I embarrass myself? What if I’m not capable? Your brain flees from the task as a survival mechanism because it feels uncomfortable. That’s why procrastination happens.

Sometimes flight is literally physically running from someone as well. For example, you might see an old colleague you hated down the street and try to avoid them. One story I like to share is from high school in New York City. My friend and I took the subway to school together, and we saw one of these Korean ladies from the corner of our eye, approaching us. She had pamphlets in her hand, clearly trying to convince us to start going to her church. My friend and I are both Korean, so she approached us, saw that we were Asian, and asked us in Korean, which translates to, “Are you Korean?” And we were in flight mode — we wanted to get to school. Without thinking, my friend responded in Korean, saying, “No, I’m not Korean.” That’s why we make silly or “stupid” mistakes. When our brain is in flight mode, we’re not thinking.

Freeze mode is when we literally freeze. If you’ve ever seen a kid caught in a lie, they might freeze — their brain is thinking, Quick, pretend you don’t exist right now, maybe this person will stop bothering you. And the funny part is, we do this as adults too. I’m sure HR people see this a lot when someone is confronted with an issue — that freeze response pops up.

Here’s the thing: it gets more subtle as we get older. This is where it goes deep, because I want people to practice awareness every day. Awareness is the thing that gives you the power to change.

Think of it like this: if you have a piece of broccoli stuck in your teeth, how do you have the power to remove it unless someone points it out or you see it in a mirror? Awareness gives you the power to change.

This is the exercise I always emphasize as step one.

Awareness, awareness, awareness.
Because guess what? The fight-flight-freeze response gets really subtle. There’s more happening than most people are even aware of.

Take the fight response, for example. A lot of high performers are actually in fight mode. That’s still survival. You’re not accessing the higher functions of your brain.

So what do I mean by this? People who overwork — that’s a fight response. Why do we overwork? Usually, there’s some need to prove ourselves: that we’re worthy, that we’re good enough.

I had a client once who had everything you could imagine: a beautiful home, a multimillion-dollar business — everything was going for him. He was in his 60s and asked, “Why am I still feeling anxious, stressed out, unhappy, unfulfilled?”

We were going over the fight-flight-freeze response, and he had this big connect-the-dots aha moment. He realized: I spent my whole life fighting.

I asked him, Fighting for what? He said he’d been fighting to prove he was better than his older brother — who was an NFL player. He remembered his football coach telling him in high school, “You’ll never be as good as your brother. Don’t even bother trying.” That hurt so much that he spent his whole life fighting to prove himself: accomplishing more, making more money, gaining more status.

The thing about the fight response is it almost always leads to lack of fulfillment and burnout. Most people don’t realize that. A lot of people are proud of being in fight mode — “Look at all these things I’ve accomplished because I’ve worked so hard.”

But usually, relationships are falling apart. Why? When you’re in fight mode, you’re not empathetic — you’re transactional. Who likes transactional relationships? Nobody.

Another interesting thing about fight mode: people can become financially successful, but internally, they’re deteriorating. Different people realize it at different stages of life.

One client said to me, “No, you need this sometimes to survive. You don’t understand — I hit rock bottom. My second wife left me. I had children. The court ordered me to pay over $2,000 a month in child support. I went broke. I had to keep my head down, put my shoulders up, and bash through concrete wall after concrete wall to get to where I am today.”

And he did. From rock bottom, he built a very successful company.

I said, “Hey, that’s fair. I’m not saying what you should, would, or could have done — the past is the past. But what if, by learning this information, you could get into your executive state, even if just for a moment?”

I used this analogy: What if, instead of putting your head down and your shoulders up, bashing into concrete walls, you could put your head up and your shoulders down — even for just a moment? And maybe you’d realize, whoa, these concrete walls I’ve been bashing through are only 3 feet wide. Why am I running through them when I could just go through another door?”

Ben [20:28]:
Just next to it.

Dr. Eugene K. Choi [20:28]:
Yeah, there’s just a door next to it.

What happens in our fight mode? Imagine a tiger walks into your room, ready to attack. Are you going to look anywhere else except at the tiger? Our brain is wired to focus on threats — that’s what kept us alive all these years.

But here’s the catch: if your life is not in physical danger, your brain still goes into that tunnel vision. It focuses on the thing you think is the problem. But what are you missing outside of that tunnel?

Guess what? When you get into executive state, you can see better solutions, ideas, and creative opportunities. This is the essence of the saying: work smarter, not harder.

When we’re in fight mode, we’re working harder, but we’re not working smarter — because your brain cannot think clearly. You’re stuck in tunnel vision.

This is why the fight response gets so subtle. Many high performers, entrepreneurs, and business owners tend to stay in fight mode. They feel, I need to work hard, I need to keep working harder, but they remain stuck on the hamster wheel: Why is my business not growing? Why is my team not performing?

A lot of leaders are in fight mode, trying to prove to people, I’m a good leader. But here’s the irony: when you’re in fight mode, your empathy is off. You’re not actually connecting with your team. You just care about being seen as a good leader — but that very fight mode makes you a less effective leader.

You see what I’m saying?

Ben [21:41]:
The alternative to the “battling-through-it” workaholic type would be those who are just working on lots of admin and doing lots of busy stuff.

Dr. Eugene K. Choi [21:49]:
Exactly.

Ben [21:50]:
Which doesn’t necessarily have such a big impact. But I’m fixing my website, a new logo — just stuff that feels like you’re doing something constructive, but really, you’re not. That strikes me as something around avoidance of putting your head up.

Dr. Eugene K. Choi [22:03]:
Yes. That could be flight mode, right? I can totally relate to that. The number of times I’ve worked with business owners — and you’re right — they just keep working on their logo or their website. And I’m like, Okay, now that you’ve worked on that, how many clients has it brought you?

Ben [22:18]:
Exactly. Don’t worry about it.

Dr. Eugene K. Choi [22:19]:
Yeah. And I try to explain to people — my first six figures in business was without a website. It was with a Word document that had the proposal on it. Very simple. Nothing fancy, nothing designed.

This is where flight mode comes in. It gets really subtle. We avoid the things that are uncomfortable to do — the things that will probably get us the results we actually want anyway. Right?

Ben [22:43]:
So you’ve described the negative situation, and then the why — what’s causing it. Part of the how is that awareness piece. Not just a piece — it’s the central element. Awareness is what lets you move things forward.

But then the question becomes: how do you maintain it or improve it? How do you establish that muscle memory to move away from those bad behaviors and do more of the good stuff?

Dr. Eugene K. Choi [23:06]:
Right. So when you understand the subtleties of what’s actually causing the bad behavior — is it a fight response, a flight response, or a freeze response? — at some point you go, I can see it. I don’t like this. I don’t want to do this anymore. How do I change it?

One way is practice on the daily. For example, a subtle flight response is when we start numbing ourselves. Everyone does it. There’s no judgment around it.

By the way, judging someone is actually a fight response: I’m insecure about myself, so I’m going to fight to try to put you down in an effort to lift myself up. That’s what’s really going on. It’s very important for leaders to understand this.

But we all numb ourselves. Some people overindulge in food, alcohol, sex, or drugs — sometimes to the point of addiction. That’s flight mode. We’re avoiding the things we don’t want to confront.

Then there’s freeze mode. When traumatic news happens, we freeze. When we’re scared or stressed, we don’t make decisions. One of the biggest aha moments I had is this: there’s no such thing as laziness. Someone you might label as lazy often has some chronic freeze response in their nervous system, so they can’t take action.

Once we become aware of all this, it leads to the next question: What do we do about it now that we’re aware?

Here’s the next big thing about how the brain works: by the time you’re about 35 years old, 90–95% of the brain goes subconscious. What does that mean? It’s on autopilot. Your brain has formed habits so that it does things automatically, without you telling it to. Think about it: when you go down or up a flight of stairs, do you consciously think, Left foot, right foot? No — you just do it.

Most people don’t realize the same thing applies to our thoughts, feelings, and actions. We think about 70,000 thoughts a day. 90–95% of those are the same thoughts as the day before, and the majority are negative thoughts about ourselves. What state does that put us in? Survival, not executive.

We’re thinking the same thoughts, feeling the same feelings, day after day. And just like our body can get addicted to drugs, we can get addicted to our feelings.

Here’s how it works: the moment you have a thought, brain cells communicate electrically. That signal travels down your spinal cord, and chemicals are released between nerve cells. Eventually, this hits your hormonal centers, releasing a hormone — and that creates the feeling you experience.

For example, imagine you’re an angry person. You think angry thoughts, your brain conducts electricity, hits your adrenal glands, and releases adrenaline. You feel anger. Over time, your body learns, This is my normal feeling. Stress, anger, frustration — your body becomes addicted to these feelings.

What happens in the morning? If you’re an angry person, your body craves anger like a drug addict craves a fix. You might think about your workload, your in-laws, your boss, and your body says, Finally, I get my fix! Even though you’re thinking, I’m frustrated, I’m angry, your body is secretly enjoying the chemical loop.

We get addicted to our feelings, and we act based on them. This is why we often don’t do what we know is good for us. We’re emotional beings — that’s what makes us human — but feelings drive behavior.

If we’re in survival state, our behavior is not intentional action — it’s reaction. We do it without thinking. We get caught in loops like, I know I should grow my business, but I feel anxious, so I’m not going to do the thing that will actually help me grow it.

Ben [27:34]:
So what if you know this? What are steps or things you can do to flip that switch?

Dr. Eugene K. Choi [27:39]:
So this is where the rabbit hole goes deep. There’s short-term work you can do — the quick tips for when you’re in the moment. For example, one of the things I always recommend is “name it to tame it,” from the psychology world.

What that means is: name your feelings to tame your feelings.

UCLA did a study with brain scans tied to participants’ heads. They showed photos of people expressing survival-state emotions — anger, anxiety, depression. The moment the photo appeared, the participants’ survival-state brains turned on.

But then the researchers asked, Can you tell me what feeling this person is expressing? The moment participants named the feeling — “Oh, that’s anger, that’s sadness” — their survival-state brain turned off and the executive-state brain turned on.

Why does this happen? Because labeling something requires thinking, and our brains cannot think in survival mode. Simply saying, “I’m feeling sad, I’m feeling frustrated, I’m feeling anxious,” activates your executive brain, where your emotional regulation centers are located. You’re literally calling on your brain to calm down and allow the higher functions to turn on.

You can do this anytime: “I’m feeling sad. I’m feeling anxious. I’m feeling joyful.”

An important nuance is the language you use. Saying “I am sad” is a declarative statement, implying permanence — I am sadness. But switching it to “I’m feeling sad” signals your brain that the feeling is temporary, because feelings come and go.

Another tip: take deep breaths. Deep breathing stimulates the parasympathetic nerves at the bottom of your lungs near your diaphragm. This signals your body: I’m not being physically harmed right now. It helps you calm down because your body wastes a lot of energy when it’s in survival mode.

Dr. Eugene K. Choi [29:43]:
Because what’s happening when your body feels threatened? Your heart rate goes up, your lungs breathe faster, and your digestive system shuts down — which is why a lot of stressed-out people have digestive issues.

These are the kinds of short-term tips. The longer-term tips involve really working with your own thinking: Why do I believe this? Why do I think this way? and understanding how to rewire your brain.

That’s the rabbit hole I’ve been exploring with a lot of my leaders: How do you actually transform culture? How do you transform a personality?

This is an actual skill we can learn. It’s called neuroplasticity — our brain’s ability to rewire itself and change its connections. We know more about the brain in the past 20 years than in all of human history combined.

Neuroplasticity is one of those remarkable things: our brain has the ability to change until our dying breath.

It’s a great thing. It proves those myths wrong. If you ever hear those sayings — like “You can’t teach an old dog new tricks,” or “Old people are set in their ways,” or “This person will never change” — total BS. Not true at all. The science shows that you can change your brain until your dying breath.

There are three evidence-based ways that promote neuroplasticity based on current research:

1. Meditation. There’s so much research showing the impact of meditation on the brain.
2. Aerobic exercise. Your heart rate has to reach a certain level. Aerobic exercise stimulates the brain, promotes neurochemical changes, and boosts overall brain function.
3. Novelty — new experiences. Travel is a perfect example: seeing different people, cultures, and perspectives stimulates brain change. Small changes work too — take a different road home, work from a different room, or even brush your teeth with your non-dominant hand.

There’s also BDNF — brain-derived neurotrophic factor — which is like nutrition for your brain. Aerobic exercise and novelty help increase BDNF, which supports brain rewiring.

Doing these things stimulates neuroplasticity, which helps change your autopilot patterns.

But here’s where the work goes deeper: for many people, autopilot isn’t just habits — it’s a whole belief system about themselves, their lives, and the world. That belief system often keeps them stuck in survival mode.

So, in addition to practicing these techniques, it’s critical to work with your own thinking. This could be getting support from a coach, therapist, or someone who can help you change the autopilot inside yourself.

Ben [32:12]:
Well, I don’t want to go too deep into this, because people listening who want help with it should probably get in touch with you or check out your content and resources. But the whole morning routine thing — it’s almost become its own industry. How do you see it? What’s your advice? Is it essential, just nice to do, or critical? What are your thoughts?

Dr. Eugene K. Choi [32:34]:
That’s a great question. I think the whole morning routine thing is overhyped, but at the same time, I don’t think it’s something that doesn’t work at all. It works for many people, but it also doesn’t work for others — it really depends on the individual. We’re a very complex species: not every brain is the same, and not every personality is the same.

That said, the intention behind the morning routine is actually a great thing. What you’re really trying to do is shift your autopilot — to create a different autopilot that replaces one that isn’t serving you. There’s a lot of research behind this, too. I think Daniel Pink talked about chronotypes — how some people perform best at certain times of the day. Some people are at their peak in the mornings, while others operate best in the afternoons or evenings.

So the intention behind a morning routine makes sense: how do you shift your autopilot? If your autopilot is running on bad habits — reacting in a state of survival where your brain’s higher functions aren’t on — it’s in your best interest to try to shift it.

The first step is awareness. Most of the journey is just noticing what your autopilot is doing. Some people fight on autopilot, thinking that’s productive: “I’m just going to work harder.” Some people flee on autopilot — avoiding issues at home by burying themselves in work to stay distracted. Everyone has their own fight-flight-freeze responses happening at an autopilot level.

If you understand how to customize an approach that works for you and actually changes your autopilot, then I’m all for it. For some people, a morning routine is fantastic. For others, it doesn’t work — because there’s no one-size-fits-all solution. We’re unique individuals.

So my approach is: find a way to change the autopilot that works for you, based on your unique situation, to help you get the results you want. Step one is just be aware of how your autopilot works. Notice the fight-flight-freeze responses you’re doing every day. Most people don’t want to look at it because it feels vulnerable. When they do, they start asking hard questions: “Is this why I have an addiction to alcohol? Is this why I behave this way every day?”

Awareness is the foundation. Once you see it, you can start to take control and build a system that works for your brain, your habits, and your life.

This is why I have that addiction. This is why I’m always working so hard without thinking about it, neglecting my relationships. It’s hard to look at these things because it feels so vulnerable, I guess.

Ben [35:16]:
To wrap things up, specifically for business owners — maybe they feel they’re middle of the road, don’t have addictions, and consider themselves to have a healthy work-life balance. But they’d still love to build a better business, do things better, faster, easier — however they define it. What’s your advice to them in the context of everything we’ve discussed today?

Dr. Eugene K. Choi [35:36]:
Have you ever heard of the P.I.E. Theory of Success?

No? So here’s the idea. The P.I.E. Theory of Success comes from research on how people actually advance their careers. The researcher studied the corporate world, but it applies to business as well. Basically, he was asking: “How do some people get promoted while others, maybe equally or more qualified, don’t?” You’ve probably had that moment at work: “How the heck did they get promoted over me?”

What he found were three key factors that contribute to career—or business—growth. That’s where the acronym P-I-E comes from: Performance, Image, and Exposure.

Here’s the surprising part: performance — how good you are at your job — is only about 10% of the contributing factor. Yes, you need to be competent. If you’re incompetent, people won’t hire or promote you. But being excellent at your work isn’t nearly as impactful as most people think. Many focus on performance: “I just need to take another course, work harder, show people I can grind.” Necessary? Yes. But not the biggest driver of growth.

Next is image, which counts for about 30% of the factor. This is how people perceive you: do they like you? Do they trust you? Would they want to spend time with you? Think about sales calls: most people assume the decision comes down to can you do the job? but a lot of it is actually do I like this person?

This is the part most people avoid confronting because it feels vulnerable. Maybe your marketing isn’t resonating, or maybe your presentation or presence doesn’t connect. Image can be three times more important than performance. That’s why the person who gets hired over someone more qualified is often the one the decision-maker simply likes better.

I can attest to this as a former manager. If I had to choose between someone highly qualified on paper but who feels awkward or off in a social interaction, my brain asks: Do I want to spend 40 hours a week with this person? If the answer is no, they’re out. Compare that to someone who may not be as impressive on paper, but comes highly recommended by the team. My trust in the secondary referrals often outweighs the resume, and these are usually the people who deliver the most results.

This is why image — or in business terms, branding — is so important. How you come across to people matters. And here’s the kicker: if you’re in survival state all the time, the way you show up to the market, to clients, or to prospects, can be off — even if your work is top-notch.

Branding is so important—how you come across to people. And guess what? If you’re in survival state all the time, the way you come across to the market ….

Ben [38:42]:
You’ll never expand that aspect.

Dr. Eugene K. Choi [38:44]:
They’re not going to like it. They’re not going to resonate with you. If you’ve ever been part of an uncomfortable sales conversation where someone is trying too hard to sell you something, you know how that feels — it comes across a certain way. That’s why you don’t like it, and you know you’re never going to pay that person.

I hate to say it, but you’re doing the same exact thing to people in your marketing if you’re operating from a state of survival. They can sense it. It’s our responsibility to teach ourselves about survival state and become aware of it, because it will inevitably show up in your branding.

Ben [39:12]:
By the way, what was the E in P.I.E.?

Dr. Eugene K. Choi [39:15]:
Sorry? Exposure.

Ben [39:16]:
Oh, exposure.

Dr. Eugene K. Choi [39:17]:
So if people don’t know you, how are they going to give you the opportunity? You could be the highest-performing person, the most likable person in the world — but if the right people don’t know who you are, how will you ever get the chance?

A lot of people dislike networking, putting themselves out there, or meeting new people because, guess what, it’s a vulnerable process. That’s when our brain goes into survival mode. You might retreat into flight, thinking, “I’ll just stay home,” instead of taking the chance to meet someone or try something new. Survival-state behavior wants to keep things familiar. We resist stepping into the unknown or uncertain territory, so we stay in one spot. You stay in one spot, you don’t go into uncertain territory, you don’t get killed by a wild animal. There’s no risk of that.

Ben [39:52]:
I was that guy. I’d stand against the wall at a networking event, or if I did muster the courage to speak to someone, I’d spend the next hour having a cup of tea or coffee with them instead of talking to 10 people. That’s how I started when I launched my HR consulting business. But the world has changed. Today, we have video, audio, content, and countless ways to gain exposure without resorting to awkward or uncomfortable approaches that don’t suit your style. If you love networking and it works for you, fantastic — but there are so many other options. I’d hate for someone to hear “E for Exposure” and immediately think, “Oh, that’s me out.”

Dr. Eugene K. Choi [40:30]:
Yeah, and I agree with you. I’m that guy too. I’m very private, very introverted — I get my energy from being on my own rather than being in a large group of people. But here’s the thing: exposure and image together account for 90% of the success of your business, honestly. And it has to happen in the right order.

First, your performance — you need to be competent. You need to deliver on what you promise. Second, your image — how you present yourself, how you align your values with the people you want to work with, and how you show up in a way that resonates with the clients you would enjoy serving. Lastly, exposure — the more people know about you, the more opportunities and clients come in.

Most people get this out of order. I’ve seen business owners make so many mistakes. I’ve had clients spend $10,000 a month on Google Ads expecting clients to stream in the door — but because their image wasn’t aligned, it didn’t convert. And then there are people who just focus on their image, without delivering strong performance. You need all three, in the right sequence, for it to really work.

I’ve been branding myself with this branding expert for the past two years. Okay, if you’ve got it to the place that your ideal client would want to buy, are you getting the exposure? Like, are you networking, or maybe you have a podcast? Are you presenting the right image? Are you talking about the right things so that when the people you want exposure to hear what you’re saying, it converts — they go, “Tell me more about this. This is exactly what I needed.”

Ben [41:45]:
On the other hand, I know plenty of businesses out there that have wonderful exposure. They’re all over the place, very friendly, and people get to know them and all that sort of stuff. But then, when the service or product is actually delivered, people just go, “Oh, no thanks.” And so they’ve got churn and turnover. You’ve got to be competent as well — have all those things in one place.

Dr. Eugene K. Choi [42:03]:
That’s the performance part, right? Is the offer actually delivering what you’re promising? That’s the offer, right. And it’s the image that will convert. If the image isn’t there, you might be networking and talking to a thousand people, but you’re not getting clients. Hey, something’s wrong with the conversion here — aka your branding, image, marketing, copywriting, all of that.

Ben [42:20]:
So, yeah, Eugene, you’ve shared so many deep insights and powerful pieces of advice. Is there a formula for creating a video that captures attention — not necessarily to go viral, but to have a bigger impact? For example, on LinkedIn, which is different from YouTube, people are constantly being told to make more videos. What’s your advice as a former video expert?

Dr. Eugene K. Choi [42:41]:
Yeah, there’s a lot of slop and crappy content out there, honestly. Right? There’s no step-by-step formula, unfortunately. I wish it were that simple — total side comment — our survival brain wants simplicity. It goes into black-and-white thinking: I don’t like gray areas, just give me the silver bullet answer. It never exists.

That said, there is a framework. In the filmmaking world, I like to explain it this way: think of a producer as the COO of a company — operational, making sure tasks get done, arranging logistics. A producer can handle various responsibilities: figuring out filming locations, logistics, getting the cast and crew together. An executive producer handles payments for the cast and crew. It’s very structured.

There is structure to creating viral-type content. People often suggest frameworks like: have a hook in the first five seconds, then follow something like a hero’s journey or storytelling framework. Main character has a problem — address it quickly. If you don’t present the problem, people aren’t interested. Every movie you’ve watched follows this rule: within the first 10 minutes, you know the big problem. Guy wants to get the girl, a villain is about to end the world — our brains are threat-focused. Stories without tension or conflict are boring biologically.

Get to the problem quickly so viewers think, “Oh, I know what’s in it for me. I have that problem. I need this solved.” Then you show the solution and always end with a call to action — follow me, take this next step, do this today, just one small step.

So there’s structure, okay? I’m just giving a very basic, high-level overview. Once you have the structure of your content — let’s say you’ve scripted it out or jotted down bullet points — the most important part, in my opinion, is what the director does. Without that, it won’t convert.

What does a director actually do? One of the key roles of a director — or in a bigger production, the assistant director shouting “action” — is to focus entirely on the performance. The moment action is called and the actors begin performing, the director’s sole job is to be hyper-focused on the emotional performance of that scene.

Why? Because the question running through your mind is: is this moment moving enough that the viewer will be emotionally impacted? Will they laugh, cry, or truly connect with the character?

Remember, AI has made information and intellect so much cheaper. What’s going to increase in demand? Emotion. Emotional connection is now one of the most valuable things content creators can offer.

This is why motivational speakers get paid so much more than a college professor who just regurgitates information from a textbook. Our ability to focus on that emotional performance is what can make or break something going viral. Does it create an emotional shift in the viewer in some way? Sure, you can just teach something — but how many people enjoy sitting in a class with a monotone professor? You see what I’m saying? The emotional performance of your content is extremely important. It could be as big as a major plot twist or as small as a joke that makes someone laugh. Is it creating an emotional shift in your viewer? Because that’s what builds a connection between your ideal client and your brand — they feel like they relate to you.

These days, marketing has gotten so much harder. There’s a concept in marketing called the “rule of seven,” which basically says someone needs to be exposed to your brand — who you are — at least seven times before they even remember you a little bit or decide whether to trust you. Now, it’s evolved into the “rule of seven hours.” What I mean by that is someone needs to spend roughly seven hours with you to decide: Do I like this person? Do I trust this person? Can I relate to this person?

But who has seven hours to spend with every single potential client? It’s impossible. That’s why it’s so amazing we live in a technological age. You can record one piece of content, and multiple people can consume it at the same time — effectively spending their seven hours with you. If you eventually build out seven hours of content, that’s why long-form podcasts have become so popular — they let people spend extended time with you, even if you’re not physically in the room.

You see what I’m saying? It’s a two-hour-long episode, and people are listening because — guess what? — the rule of seven hours. I just spent two hours with them, and it feels like I was in the room with them, even though I wasn’t.

I think this is where the demand is shifting: people want authenticity, they want genuine connection. Especially in a digital age, where it’s hard to know what’s real anymore. Some of these videos are incredible — so true, amazing in quality, and incredibly convincing.

Ben [47:33]:
But anyway, yeah — that emotional aspect, and the connection — it’s so true. If people want to work with you, get your help, whether for their organization or for themselves personally as a business owner, what should they do next?

Dr. Eugene K. Choi [47:45]:
Yeah, so the awareness piece is step one in my process. Step two is the training piece — this is where the science comes in. If you want to dive deeper into how these things actually work and start seeing real results in your life, changing autopilot, I have an online community called Neurohacking School. You can check it out at neurohackingschool.com. It’s a membership group where we meet once a month, and there are online modules I’ve recorded covering everything I teach.

For business owners, I also run a live, in-person mastermind here in California once a month, and I’ve recently started making it accessible online for the broader community. This is the body of work I’ve been building to help empower people to step out of survival mode, develop the skills to change autopilot, and move into step three: implementation. Because, let’s be real — if you don’t actually do the things you learn, you won’t get the results.

Ben [48:36]:
Could you call out the website again? Neurohackingschool.com.

Well, Eugene, thank you very much. I really appreciate you sharing your ideas and insights today. For listeners, I would highly recommend getting in touch with Eugene through his website, Neurohackingschool.com, and be sure to check the show notes for all the details. Eugene, thank you again for taking the time to join us.

Dr. Eugene K. Choi [48:51]:
Thank you. Thank you so much for having me. It’s been a pleasure.

Topics covered: how to stand out as a consultant, HR consultants, attract consulting clients, business growth strategies for consultants, common consulting mistakes, neuroscience for consultants

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