Delivering Real-Time, AI-Powered Labor Market Datasets Worldwide – with Cary Sparrow, CEO of WageScape

In this episode of the HR business marketing podcast, A Better HR Business, Ben speaks with Cary Sparrow, Founder and CEO of WageScape, a labor market intelligence company transforming how organizations understand hiring, pay, and workforce trends through real-time AI-powered data.

A former U.S. Navy nuclear submarine officer, Cary has more than 35 years of leadership experience spanning engineering, global consulting, and HR analytics, including executive roles at Willis Towers Watson and Cargill. He is passionate about using data, technology, and high-performing teams to solve complex workforce challenges and help organizations make smarter, more confident decisions.

WageScape delivers real-time labor market and compensation intelligence through one of the largest continuously updated workforce datasets available. Its AI-powered platform helps organizations gain deeper insights into hiring demand, pay trends, and talent markets across the globe, enabling better workforce planning, business strategy, and AI-driven decision-making with reliable, high-quality data.

What You’ll Learn in This Episode:

• A smarter approach to client acquisition by leveraging current labor market insights.
• The specific consulting use cases powered by real-time wage and hiring data.
• How Cary Sparrow built WageScape—and why trust and partnerships are at the heart of marketing and business growth.

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About The ‘A Better HR Business’ Podcast

In my HR marketing podcast, I talk with different HR consultants and HR tech companies from around the world to learn about what they do and how they keep their businesses healthy and moving in the right direction.

If you have questions you want to ask me about growing an HR consultancy or marketing for HR tech companies, just let me know or visit the HR marketing services page.

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Enjoy the show!

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Episode Transcript

Episode 316: Delivering Real-Time, AI-Powered Labor Market Datasets Worldwide – with Cary Sparrow, CEO of WageScape

Ben [00:00:01]:
Hello, welcome back to the show. Great to have you along. I’m really looking forward to today’s conversation with a fascinating guy, Cary Sparrow. Cary, man, he’s done it all. He’s a former U.S. Navy nuclear submarine officer. He was the former Global Practice Leader at Willis Towers Watson and later became the Vice President of HR Performance and Analytics at Cargill. And now he is the Founder and CEO of a very cool company called WageScape, whose AI-powered platform is the world’s largest provider of real-time labor market data.

Ben [00:00:47]:
So we’re going to dive right into that. But firstly, Cary, thanks very much for being here today.

Cary Sparrow [00:00:52]:
Hey, it’s my pleasure. I’m happy to be talking with you.

Ben [00:00:54]:
Yeah. And look, CEOs, founders—you’re doing a working holiday, it seems. So you’re taking time out of a bit of time away, so I appreciate that. Whereabouts are you?

Cary Sparrow [00:01:07]:
I’m here in the States, in Oklahoma, in the forest, spending some time with my family. But as always, as most CEOs and founders will tell you, most holidays are working holidays. So I blend work and holidays together and have a good balance from that standpoint.

Ben [00:01:24]:
Very good. Well, we’ll get into it, but look, I can’t let you relax. I actually have to be cross with you because where on earth were you when I was early in my HR career, is what I want to say.

So two things spring to mind for me. One, I’m an Australian, so in Australia, when I was doing my university studies, I worked at this government phone line where people would ring up about pay rates for employers—how much do I get paid as a hairdresser, and this and that, and how much do I need to pay my mining staff in the desert digging up gold, and stuff. And I would have to sit there and flick through massive manuals and government gazettes and reports and stuff. I would usually put them on hold and say, “Just a moment, please,” while I frantically called across the room looking for information. That’s one thing.
Years later, I did a large remuneration and benefits project for a billion-dollar company, and I thought, this is going to be great and easy because they’re going to have all the best equipment and datasets and everything, and software. And again, that was a big bunch of heavy folders from a survey company that would just ask people to fill in employment survey data and combine it. Then it was a massive Excel spreadsheet, and that was it.

So if you said to me, “How much does someone get paid?” or “What are the labor increases across certain geographies?” and stuff, I couldn’t tell you on the spot. It would take me ages of analysis, and I’d probably break my computer doing it.

That’s my first question: Where on earth was WageScape when I needed you?

Cary Sparrow [00:02:52]:
It hadn’t been formed yet, and that’s exactly why WageScape was created. I experienced firsthand the need for a better way to get the kind of market intelligence that’s needed all over the world. Salary surveys and economic reports just weren’t enough, and that’s what we built.

I founded the company eleven years ago, and the resonance in the market—from folks who wanted something that went beyond what surveys and reports could offer—was strong. They wanted something that wasn’t as backward-looking, wasn’t as difficult to use, and was easier to understand. And that’s what we have at WageScape.

Since then, a number of other companies have jumped into the real-time market intelligence business. We weren’t the first, but we were among the first. And now it’s a little bit easier, but there are still challenges, and those challenges present good opportunities for us.

Ben [00:04:05]:
Yeah, absolutely. I was playing around on the website and looking at all the product details and how it works. So contrast my examples, where I had big, heavy manual folders or Excel spreadsheets—maybe some datasets, but very basic stuff. I was really impressed by the way WageScape is very user-friendly, and it’s all about use cases. So maybe you could tell us, firstly, what does WageScape do? And then secondly, I’d love to hear about some of the use cases that people use it for.

Cary Sparrow [00:04:41]:
Sure. So we’ve built a data asset that, as you said, is the largest source of real-time hiring and pay intelligence in the world. We cover 240 countries and major territories. We monitor what’s going on with job openings and pay for those openings every single day from about 800,000 different career sites worldwide.
So we’re collecting a massive amount of data. We consolidate it, we clean it, and we enrich it into a common dataset to make it easier to use. And then we make that dataset available to all kinds of folks who want to use it.

In the HR space, we’re talking about use cases around salary planning, compensation management, and talent acquisition—understanding who’s hiring in the market, what they’re paying, and what companies expect to pay for open jobs. So that’s on the HR side.

We also have a big set of constituents in platform analysis. So, which platforms are getting jobs posted, which platforms are seeing demand for particular roles, and so forth.

Financial services is another big space for us, where people are using what’s happening in the labor market to understand the general business outlook, as well as how companies are positioned to fulfill their business obligations. So trading desks, for example, and investment managers use our data.

So there are lots of folks who need and use data about what’s happening in the labor market, and they’ve traditionally been hamstrung, as you pointed out, by data that’s late, imprecise, and opaque.

Cary Sparrow [00:06:57]:
Most of the time, when people are collecting survey data—whether it’s a salary survey or an economic survey—the data sources are blind. You can’t go in and see which company is paying what for which kind of position.

So there are a number of things that we care about: transparency, immediacy, and the ability to get very, very local. We were joking before the call, you know, “What are cleaning staff in one of the suburbs of Minneapolis making right now?” And that’s something no salary survey is going to be able to tell you.

Unless you want to go out and do a bit of independent research, you’re not going to easily get that information. But those are exactly the kinds of questions that our clients need answers to, and our dataset is set up to support that very, very easily.

Ben [00:07:59]:
Absolutely. You actually just reminded me of a different company at a different time, whereby the recruitment team were given the task of pretending to apply for jobs in their sector in a particular location and phoning up to find out how much they would get paid, what the hours were, and so on. It was a very laborious process and probably a bit sneaky, but that’s what people did.

So you’ve taken that pain away, right? People just dive in. What’s your question? I think that’s what I like about it. It’s, “What’s your question? What’s your need?” And then you ask it and get the information. Is that right?

Cary Sparrow [00:08:33]:
Yep, that’s exactly right. And with the advent of all the different AI models that are available now, it’s opened the door for lots of different questions to be asked in lots of different places where what’s going on in the market for jobs and the market for skills is very relevant to how those questions get answered.
So we package our data based on the use cases, based on the kinds of questions and business needs that people have, which vary. It’s getting a lot easier—and frankly, a lot more risky—to get answers to those kinds of questions.

Right now, you could go to one of the major AI models and ask the same question, and it will authoritatively give you an answer. But you have to look very closely at where the data is coming from. That represents our advantage—we have a highly curated data asset that provides the definitive answer to those kinds of questions.

Ben [00:09:35]:
Yeah, so it’s your classic “garbage in, garbage out.” So you’ve got to protect against that.

I believe WageScape has a large proportion of clients or partners that are consultants or consulting firms. Can you share how that works?

Cary Sparrow [00:09:50]:
Yeah. Consulting firms are often paid to answer these kinds of questions, and to do so much more effectively. They’re able to incorporate insights from their own clients, different sources of intelligence, and their own analytics in a way that’s matched to their clients’ business needs.

I used to be in consulting and ran a very large consulting practice, so I understand the business and the value proposition really well. Having a source of information that consolidates what’s going on in the market, in a way that can bring immediate insights to a client, is incredibly valuable.

Consulting firms work with us because we supplement what they already do, and we do it in a way that enhances the quality of their services. In a lot of cases, it also creates opportunities for entirely new services.

Think of what we do this way: whether you’re a consultant or you have internal constituents that you’re serving within your own business, we’re a way to create new revenue streams—literal revenue in the case of consulting, or new value in terms of what you’re bringing to your stakeholders and the things you can do more quickly for them.

So that’s a big part of what we do. We really help drive top-line growth, not just the bottom line.

Ben [00:11:21]:
Absolutely. I can see that being either new service lines, as you say, or a way to increase your margins, or simply to improve client retention.

I’m thinking of a project I did where I was setting up large-scale operations in other countries. You don’t know what the local pay rates are and all that sort of stuff, so you may be at risk of losing that project without that data.

So there’s an example of how you either keep the project—which is obviously making money for the business—or add it as a new service stream, or simply increase your margins by saying, “Well, we’ll do that for you as well.” So yeah, that’s an interesting approach.

Cary Sparrow [00:11:55]:
And client retention is a huge issue because it’s a lot easier—and a lot less expensive—to keep and expand existing clients than it is to go out and acquire a new one to replace the client you just lost.

So you’ve got to constantly be bringing new value. You have to constantly be proving your worth. You have to be constantly adapting to your clients’ needs. And that helps drive client retention as well as new business acquisition.

Ben [00:12:53]:
Love it. If I change tack now, a lot of people in the HR, L&D, and workplace space are interested in growing their HR tech or consulting firms. What has worked for you in terms of getting new clients, customers, and growing the business for WageScape? Any particular marketing or growth strategies that have worked well for you?

Cary Sparrow [00:13:21]:
Well, your brand proposition out in the market has never been stronger than it is right now, which means that’s not really a good thing. Everybody’s proposition ends up in the inboxes and on the doorsteps of potential clients.

The challenge we face—and I think nearly every company faces—is: How do we stay relevant? How do we build those initial connections that lead to longer-term relationships, which ultimately create business value for both parties?

So we spend a lot of time thinking about that. I tell people our biggest barrier to growth is that not enough people know about us. And we’re a self-funded company, so I don’t have millions of dollars from a cadre of VCs to spend on brand development. We have to be really smart about how we do it.

The good news for us is that we have something of value that people want, which is detailed and relevant intelligence on a very significant pain point: hiring and pay. So we trade data and market intelligence for brand exposure and brand-building opportunities.

We also use that as currency in creating partnerships with organizations that have a much bigger market presence than we do. We partner with them and benefit from that brand presence.

We have partnerships with most of the major HR consultancies in the world. We’ve got partnerships with many of the major technology firms as well. The way I look at that is that it’s an extension of my business development capacity.
So I think a lot of it still comes down to relationships, but we’ve really leaned into partnerships. We’ve looked hard at where we have something valuable that isn’t cash and how we can use that to create value for others and demonstrate what we can do for them in a way that keeps them engaged with us.

Those are things that aren’t very expensive, and when we do have to invest in them, the ROI is many, many times over.

Ben [00:15:42]:
That’s smart. Yeah, that’s really smart. How do you balance those partnerships where you might give away datasets, insights, or something like that to consulting firms that otherwise might pay you—or white-label your data—to use those insights anyway?

Do you know what I mean? How do you strike that balance where you’re giving away information for free in exchange for co-marketing, getting the word out, and so on? Where do you draw the line?

Cary Sparrow [00:16:19]:
Yeah, I mean, you have to do that. You’ve got to let people see your product. If your currency is information and intelligence, you’ve got to give some of it away so people can see the value. So what are you really betting on? You’re betting that they’re going to come back.

Now, in many cases, they weren’t going to be your client anyway, so you’re not really losing anything. And the cost of generating that information is extraordinarily low. But along the way, you’re building a connection.

Now, for commercial partners, where we give away something that they can then turn around and sell, we obviously have to put guardrails around that. A lot of times, the way we do it is by structuring deals where both parties get paid. When they sell something, we get paid as well.

But there’s got to be a level of trust. You’ve got to get to know your partners. You’ve got to build relationships where trust continues to grow as part of the partnership. Because if that trust isn’t there, then you can end up in really unsatisfactory situations.

It’s not so much about the money you lose. It’s more about wasting effort on a partner that you ultimately can’t feel confident is working in your best interest.
So incentives matter. Structuring contracts matters.

The good news is that we’re really not transactional in our partnerships. We don’t just say, “Here’s the cost of our dataset—that’s it. Go figure out what to do with it.“

We work very closely with our partners, and they recognize that we invest in them. In turn, they invest in us. If they don’t, then the partnership’s over.

Ben [00:18:15]:
Got it. You know, in some grocery stores or supermarkets, they’ve got someone there with a board saying, “Come and taste this cheese,” or “Try this sausage,” or something. You taste it and think, “Oh, that’s great. I’ll go and buy a bunch of it,” because they’re giving away samples. In the HR or HR tech world, I’ve seen learning companies give away a module from a larger library or different assets. Maybe it’s tools or AI-based GPTs where someone can use one particular feature from a larger suite.

Do you give away datasets like that? Does something like that work, or is it a bigger-picture approach? Is it just too complicated, rather than saying, “Hey, if you need to know the pay rate for a particular role or the wage increase in a particular region, here’s the page to go to”?

Cary Sparrow [00:19:05]:
No, we absolutely do things like that. A couple of examples: we’ve got partnerships with some major industry associations. For the compensation folks in the audience, they’d recognize WorldatWork, for example, as a partner of ours for a number of years. One of the tools they offer is limited access to our dataset, which is provided free to their members.

We have similar arrangements with other industry associations where we give away something that’s genuinely useful. Again, for those who want something more sophisticated, there’s a paid offering. For those who don’t, there’s a good chance they wouldn’t have been clients of ours anyway.

This is a way to extend the overall reach of the value we’re providing. So yes, we absolutely do that, and we do it for two purposes. One is as part of the marketing funnel—to make it easier for people to understand the value our data brings and then want more to support what they’re doing.

For those who get all the value they need from the free services, we’re now a known entity to them, and they’ll undoubtedly spread awareness of us within their own circles as well. So those are really the two strategies.

Ben [00:20:39]:
Before I leave the marketing topic, one last question. You’ve done so much on the marketing and growth side, both in your current role and in your previous leadership roles. You talked about positioning and understanding the market—that’s such a key element.

There are a hundred different marketing channels and methods. What’s your advice to people listening who are trying to grow an HR or HR tech business? If they want to grow on the marketing and business development side, is there any advice you could share?

Cary Sparrow [00:21:19]:
Well, there are a few things I’d say for context. The traditional view of the marketing funnel, we’ve found—through talking with marketing leaders and thought leaders in the marketing space—no longer works.

The idea of a traditional funnel, where you broadcast a message to the world and expect some small percentage to hear it, and then an even smaller percentage to convert, just isn’t effective anymore.

Just use your own inbox as an example. You’re inundated with messages from companies that have great products, want you to know about them, and want you to buy from them.

That approach doesn’t work anymore because it’s too easy for everyone to do it. The market is flooded with information.

So there has to be a way to break through that noise and earn trust. The easiest way we’ve found to build trust is to partner with someone who already has the trust of a large audience.

Work with partners. Work with industry mavens. Work with people who can endorse what you’re doing to their audience. Because they’re already trusted, anything associated with them gets opened at a much higher rate.
Even three or four years ago, it used to take far fewer touchpoints to build a relationship. Today, it takes many more.

So find people you can work with who will bring their network to what you’re doing, and make sure you’re bringing value back to them as well. That’s what creates partnerships people want to continue. I think it all comes back to one question: How can we reduce the barrier of trust?

Ben [00:23:54]:
So before I let you go, for people listening to this, who should they be looking for if they want to refer business to you? Whether that’s on the employer side or consulting firms that would package up your information, help people understand who your ideal customers are.

Cary Sparrow [00:24:27]:
You can reach me personally through my LinkedIn profile, which is easy to find. If you’ve got questions or think there might be a good connection, or if you think there’s a way we can help you, please reach out. We’re super easy to get in touch with. You can learn more about WageScape and contact us directly through our website, www.wagescape.com, or you can reach out to me personally through my LinkedIn profile.

If you have questions, think there’s a worthwhile connection, or you’re hoping we might be able to help, feel free to reach out. We always enjoy talking with people.

Ben [00:25:56]:
Love it. Thank you very much, Cary. That’s great.
I loved hearing about your business, and I really appreciate you taking time out of your camping trip to join us today.

Cary Sparrow [00:26:09]:
Not a problem. It’s been my pleasure.

Topics covered: how to find consulting clients, how to get more clients as a consultant, using AI in consulting, HR consultants, workplace consultants, business growth strategies for consultants

Note: Get More HR Clients has some affiliate referral partnerships with software and service companies and may receive compensation accordingly. However, we only ever recommend products and services that we have reviewed carefully and that we trust. In most cases, we use them in our own business too.